Exploring Salvo's Art and Career

Jeppe Curth 0:00

Hi and welcome to the Collector's Edge from Nordic Art Partners . In this episode we will discuss the work and career of Salvo , an Italian artist who continues to grow in popularity and reputation . With me today , as usual , is our art expert , Nicolas Robinson , and me your host , Jeppe Kort . It is with Alex Rotter at 400 million Selling here at Christie's $400 million is the bid and the piece is sold .

Nicholas Robinson 0:29

We've all heard about it . Sometimes it's front-page news . Important works of art are being sold for incredible sums of money , but can you get involved and become a part of the exclusive club yourself , and how do you get started while avoiding buying the wrong things ? That's exactly what this podcast is about . This is the Collector's Edge from Nordic Art Partners , a podcast for those of you interested in the mechanics of the art industry , want advice about putting money into art , or simply want to buy something for your walls , to beautify your surroundings . Whatever your objectives , it is possible to put money into art wisely , to be considered , thoughtful and well informed in your choices and actions . Welcome to the art of collecting with an eye for curated beauty and practical value , and practical value , Hi Nick .

Nicholas Robinson 1:27

Hi , jeppe , good day . I just want to congratulate you . That was an impeccable introduction that you managed to do in a single take , thank you .

Jeppe Curth 1:38

We're doing better and better in this podcasting .

Nicholas Robinson 1:39

I guess we are . How are you doing Good ? Very well , thank you you .

Jeppe Curth 1:43

Yeah , I'm well . I'm looking forward to this episode where we're going to talk about Salvo .

Nicholas Robinson 1:49

Yes , we'll talk about Salvo , one of our favorites .

Jeppe Curth 1:51

Yes , indeed , and maybe we should start by you describing who is Salvo .

Nicholas Robinson 1:58

Of course , salvo was an Italian artist , born Salvatore Mangione in 1947 . And the key period in his life began in the late 1960s 1968 , when he moved to Turin and became associated with artists of the Arte Povera movement , especially Alighiero Boetti , mario Mertz and Giuseppe Penone . All of these artists were in the orbit of the Genenzo Sperone Gallery and he became very close with them . He shared a studio with Boetti until 1971 , and his works of this themes of history , identity and a lot of his works from this period show a sort of collaborative cross-pollination with Boetti's works of this period , boetti's works of this period .

Nicholas Robinson 3:22

In 1969 , he became also involved with American conceptual artists such as Joseph Kassuth , robert Barry , Sol LeWitt , and this early period also solidified some important relationships with some key people in the art world and the art market of this time . Some key people in the art world and the art market of this time . Obviously , we've already mentioned Genenzo Sperone , but he came into contact with the highly influential German dealer Paul Mainz in Cologne , and he also met with and exhibited with Yvon Lambert in Paris and John Weber in New York , all of whom were highly important figures in the championing of post-minimal conceptual art . So that's the basic background of who he is .

Jeppe Curth 4:13

Thank you , Nick . Well , we also talk about Salvo today because we love his work . Could you describe ?

Nicholas Robinson 4:20

his works for us Absolutely . Describe his works for us Absolutely . Salvo's painterly evolution was a sort of a slow burn throughout the course of the 1970s . He began painting in 1973 , at which point he decided to abandon , for the most part , the conceptual , word-based , text-based works , and he would never abandon this choice or go back from this decision . And then , around 1976 , he started painting the very first works that we recognize as the sort of proto-Salvo works that we've come to know today , as the sort of proto salvo works , um , that we've come to know today , and and the works that in fact form the bedrock of his , of his , of his current reputation and his , his place within the market , uh , if you like . But in 1976 , he started painting these mythological scenes , engaging in a dialogue with um , with , with the old masters , particularly of the early Renaissance . His works would have an affinity with artists like Piero della Francesca , paolo Uccello . They were history paintings showing figures on horses amidst ruins , columns and various , uh , sort of capricci of classical antiquity , so fictitious scenes of ruins , um , and things like this , um .

Nicholas Robinson 5:56

And then in 1979 , we see the very first of what would become his mature style throughout the 80s , and this saw the development of his key aesthetic , that being trees and vegetation , very much inspired by the works of Giotto , one of the key artists at the beginning of the Italian Renaissance . So Salvo had a very clear conception of the artist , the role of the artist and how the artist , as this sort of genius , creative force , had a very specific role within culture , whereby artistic practice was primarily to mediate between antiquity and modernity . So Salvo would see himself and other artists as a conduit to bring many of these classical ideals into the present and a way for the artist to be relevant . And then , throughout the 1980s and then throughout the 1980s , he painted various iterations of these landscape scenes . The people at the end of the 70s were stripped away and he painted churches , monasteries , classical buildings , various ancient Italian structures that were highly recognizable as the archetypes of Italian medieval architecture Churches , ecclesiastical buildings and all the features associated with them Arcaded cloisters , towers , etc . And then , throughout the 80s , he became very sort of distilled into a few different types of landscape painting .

Nicholas Robinson 7:46

He lived in Turin , so he painted lots of landscapes in the hillsides of Piedmont . These are typically known as the valley works , consisting of little hamlets , clusters of farmhouses , sylvan hillsides , mountains , very idealized , very densely saturated in color , rich and lush , often with very beautiful cotton , candy trees and clouds , and the main idea behind this was to portray the complexities of light and the passage of time . The paintings are very serene , they're very still and they , you know , they crystallize real and remembered passages of landscape into this profound meditation on the passing of time . Indeed , many of the works were named after times of day , months or seasons , or some combination of these . So he painted these valleys , painted them at night , known as the noturnos .

Nicholas Robinson 8:55

He painted seascapes , many in a town in Calabria called San Nicola , arkela , where he would visit . He painted scenes from the city . He painted classical ruins and he also painted a group of paintings called the Ottomania paintings . In the mid to late 80s , he traveled to Bosnia-Herzegovina and he painted a group of paintings showing the archetypes of Islamic architecture mosques , minarets , etc . Etc . So this is , you know , a broad summary of what we've come to look for when we look at his work .

Jeppe Curth 9:37

Thanks , Nick . Are there any particular works by Selva you believe are essential for understanding his impact on art generally ?

Nicholas Robinson 9:45

works by Selva you believe are essential for understanding his impact on art generally . Well , I think that his mature style , you know there's a reason why it's become very , very popular . They're extremely beautiful , they're very charming , they're very idyllic and I think that when you see the best combination of these elements , you see , you know , beautiful light , you see beautiful rich greens in the landscape , you see the long shadows from the trees . You know , you feel , you feel that you're in a timeless landscape , a landscape that has that has not changed , that is enduring and that has certain sort of universal qualities . So these are the kinds of things , and you know , the works variously have mountains , church spires , the trees , the clouds that I mentioned . We see beautiful sunrises , sunsets , we see the moon high in the sky with clouds passing in front . And you know , salvo is a master at depicting light , the effect of light at different times of the day , different seasons . So any painting that really embodies these qualities is , you know , a very desirable thing .

Jeppe Curth 11:06

And there's also that same desire that collectors have for the same type of works .

Nicholas Robinson 11:11

Yes , absolutely , I mean , you know , the very best of these are the ones that are becoming most sought after .

Revival of Interest in Salvo's Work

Nicholas Robinson 11:18

You know , for a long time Salvo sort of lapsed into somewhat obscure reputation , reputationally speaking , even though he had a long and consistent and well regarded career . But the works , you know , the works are very pretty and people become very suspicious of things that are overtly beautiful , of things that are overtly beautiful . Somehow that can be a byword sometimes for lacking substance . But of course it was largely unknown to most passing observers that Salvo had this very sort of rigorous conceptual grounding in the Italian avant-garde of the late 60s and early 1970s and that his determination to continue portraying these scenes , these passages of light and time within the landscape , you know , people would very easily maybe miss the conceptual underpinning for these works . In any event , his work is becoming recognized again and there's been some .

Nicholas Robinson 12:31

There's an artist , nicholas Party , who's become a very big star within the art world , whose most successful paintings sell for millions of dollars and his works bear a superficial similarity to Salvo .

Nicholas Robinson 12:47

He's , uh , he's gone on record as saying that he's been very inspired by um Salvo , very indebted to his , his work and his aesthetic , and and there have been some exhibitions where the where works by the two artists have been juxtaposed alongside each other in quite an interesting way . So the contemporary artists like Partey and like some other artists who paint in these very sort of rich , stylized landscape style works , you know people see the popularity of these artists , they see the large prices that these artists' works are achieving in gallery exhibitions , in auctions , and it's you know , it's a very easy step to start to look at the antecedents for some of these artists' works and to see an artist like Salvo . You know these artists' works would not be possible without Salvo's work and the example that he set . So you know it becomes very , very much a part of an ongoing dialogue to try and experience a revival of interest . People begin to link the work of modern and contemporary artists to their work . They trace the contemporary artists back to the artists who have inspired them .

Jeppe Curth 14:34

Yes , I do think we also can agree that he had some . He have had some really good years last couple of years where he also , I believe , had had I think it was last year a new auction record of more than 1.1 million dollars for for two meter by three 30 meter worker , I guess it was um . Is this you know , collectors today ? Going back in history and connect the dots in terms of some of the new artists , contemporary artists , and connecting with Salvo ?

Nicholas Robinson 15:10

Yes and no . I mean obviously it's . It's not much of a stretch to see a large painting by Nicholas Party achieve , let's say , four million dollars , for example , and then see that a Salvo painting , you know , which , you know , not so long ago was worth a hundred thousand dollars . And you know things like that from a very rational perspective they don't make much sense . So people are always interested in looking for new things because there's already a compelling and interesting narrative and story that has brought this artist kind of full circle back into contemporary relevance . So it's like a new market for something that's somehow still established in some way and that makes a lot of sense . Still established in some way and that makes a lot of sense . You know , um Salvo's work is in is in many museums in Germany , in Italy , in the United States . His work is in um is in MoMA in the Walker Art Center , um he he participated in Documenta and several editions of the Venice Biennale . I mean , he's a , he's an important artist , um , and yet his , the way his work was valued by the market , was not um , was did not have that sort of equivalency with , with his status Um . So obviously people see this and they start to think that you know something interesting can be done to to breathe life in into this market Um but a few years ago his work was exhibited um by Barbara Gladstone in New York , and obviously this is a fantastic gallery um who has a long and illustrious track record with painters um as well as artists working in other media Um but she she's done some extremely good work with with Salvo Um . It's my understanding that that she collaborates closely with the Archivio Salvo , which is the artist's archive and estate that manages all of his um authentication , all of the um I guess uh exhibition planning in order to protect his , his legacy and uh and reputation Um so so , so Gladstone has been key . She's exhibited more recently um a show of his of his uh ruins , his classical ruins , a show of his of his uh ruins , his classical ruins , uh paintings in um her Brussels gallery Um . There's a gallery in Milan that worked with Salvo at the end of his life . He died in 2015 .

Nicholas Robinson 18:17

Um Masolini um they're in in Milan and they've done a lot with bringing his work to art fairs and bringing his work much more into a current consciousness Um . There's a really nice gallery in Milan , depart um uh run by uh Antonio Adamiano . He's a real scholar of Salvo's work and he's very devotedly um been pushing and pushing and pushing the work Um . Massimiliano Bugno , in Venice , who worked with Salvo for many , many years during his life um is very , has a very sophisticated and nuanced knowledge of the artists , various bodies of work um and always has fantastic , fantastic works and exhibitions Um . So you know , there's there's a growing awareness of the work within the market and then once that awareness develops and you start seeing the works cropping up at auction um , and then it gathers a momentum of its own Um , you know , all of a sudden , salvo is an art star all over again posthumously . So , yes , you know , we see all of these factors coalescing to create a particular moment .

Nicholas Robinson 19:32

Unfortunately , there have been too many paintings coming up for auction because there's been a sort of a meteoric price rise and Salvo was , you know , he he made quite a lot of paintings um , and he's working consistently for , you know , 30 odd years Um . So so you know , there are , there are paintings that are really kind of coming out of the woodwork , selling at auctions in London , new York , in provincial auction houses up and down Italy , in Hong Kong , I mean . There's a lot of them , um , and you know the prices are a little bit erratic . Sometimes these works , you know , don't really garner attention just because the auction is a small auction . Um , the works are quite erratic qualitatively .

Nicholas Robinson 20:21

So you know , there's there's always reasons why some things make big prices , some things makes more prices and sometimes there's a sequence of mediocre prices just because there's too much material , um , that the market is expected to absorb within any given period of time . So you know , we're seeing what we're seeing is we're seeing a market in the process of sorting itself out . But , that being said , the prices now are at least double , maybe three times , what they were this time two years ago . So there've been some significant changes . And , like I said , this large painting , or the one that you referenced , that sold for a million plus , you know there wasn't . That would have been $125,000 not so long ago . So there've been some significant changes in the price and now they're routinely fetching pretty handsome sums .

Jeppe Curth 21:21

Okay , so when considering Salvo's work for acquisition , what aspect do you believe are the most compelling from an art advisor perspective ?

Nicholas Robinson 21:31

Well , you know , I think the first thing to say , which is relevant for any artist whose work you would consider , is is get to know the works and find the best example that you can for the budget that you have . I mean , I would always say you know , stretch and buy something better . Um , I think also that a good rule of thumb would be to buy something that is tiny bit bigger , and when I say that I mean anything 60 to 70 centimeters in one of the dimensions . Anything of that scale and larger would be a good idea . Just because there are , they start to get a little bit fewer , get a little bit fewer Um . You know the very large paintings . There's not many of those Um . And then there's a sort of a category which is maybe one and a half meters by two meters in size , and they're they're relatively scarce and they're they're can be quite expensive .

Nicholas Robinson 22:30

Now , seven $800,000 euros Um , but then . But then after that you've got some paintings that are 1 meter 20 , 1 meter 50 , you know paintings of this scale which are still somewhat friendly for a domestic setting but still substantial . So I think that's a good idea . And then , of course , you know , the composition should reflect maybe the archetypes of his work that I've described earlier reflect , maybe , the archetypes of his work that I've described earlier . Um , but it's possible to buy good examples of his work for 50 , 60 , $70,000 . I mean , there's plenty of works coming up at auction beautiful , uh , sunset , drenched , seascapes , um , really nice works , um , and I I think that they're very reasonably priced for the quality and the importance that they have . Even still , so , it depends on your budget , because obviously , you know , accessibility is one of those things that is dependent on how much money you have to spend .

Jeppe Curth 23:39

Well it , I guess it often comes down to money . But if we reflect a bit on Salvo's career , what do you see as his lasting legacy in the art world , and how does this influence your advice to clients ?

Nicholas Robinson 23:56

Well , I think that one of the things about Salvo is that he's , you know he's . He's a bit of an outlier . He started to become interested in painting before there was this great revival in painting at the end of the 1970s and throughout the 1980s . So he doesn't really fit into any particular box that prescribes an artist or artists in terms of adherence , adherence to a movement or or such Um , so . So , really , it's , it's , you know , he's a , he's a distinctive character who very singularly stuck to his ideals , um , and to the kinds of things that he wanted to do .

Nicholas Robinson 24:39

I mean , there's enormous repetition in the scenes that he painted , you know , scenes of Santana , a small village in the foothills of the Alps , close outside , somewhat outside Turin , and close to the border with France . I mean he painted the same barn , the same tree , the same church spire , with a plowed fields and the mountains beyond . He painted this over and over again in the summertime , in the wintertime snow on the ground , moon in the sky . You know the , the , the , the , the lush promise of spring , the sort of faded grandeur of summer as it moves into early autumn . I mean , all of these , all of these repetitions , are exercises in conveying these , these , these , these key , key things that Salvo was seeking to communicate . So I think , you know , these paintings are very timeless paintings .

Nicholas Robinson 25:37

I mean to to look at a sort of a maybe a similar yet very different artist . To look at the Italian artist Mirandi , for instance . You know he painted these very dry , still life paintings , very restful , very specific , somewhat limited palette of colors , and he did them over and over again . These vessels , this sense of stillness , and you know , his paintings are just instantly recognizable for this . You know , the Impressionist painter , henri Fantin Latour , who transitioned from the sort of academic school of the third quarter of the nuance of of light , the way , the way it catches on the surface of this , of these , these petals of this , of this foliage , um , you know , salvo is , is , is , is like this . He just encapsulates a certain um set of , uh , painterly expectations in terms of what you want to see , what you expect to see , and he does it over and over , and some examples of his work are better than others .

Jeppe Curth 27:09

No-transcript so nick . Without diving too deeply into specifics , could you share how selfless work might fit into a well-created collection with from both the aesthetic and value ?

Nicholas Robinson 27:34

standpoint . Well , I mean , any collection is is . There's no such thing as a standardized collection . You know , people buy things for for various reasons . I mean , we buy his work , like many artists , because we , we admire it , we recognize a certain quality and we recognize a certain opportunity , because we believe that his work is underestimated and undervalued vis-a-vis so many other things that are out there , and we believe in the potential and the likelihood of his work to well continue to be sort of elevated into a status and a market recognition that is better than is currently the case .

Nicholas Robinson 28:20

Um , and so I , you know many of the artists that we look to . You could , you could describe them , uh , in that , in that kind of way , in those sorts of terms . Um , you know , we , we like to be students of history , we like to do a deep dive , we like to to to research , we like to travel and get to know the context . Um , that informed these artists and the various protagonists that have been involved in , in , in bringing the artists back to the fore . Um , so , you know , does it fit in with , I mean , you know , Salvo's work is , it could fit in with all kinds of contemporary , contemporary painting .

Nicholas Robinson 29:00

There's a aesthetically challenging um , in in the way that some things are that might might be harsh or or or might be difficult to understand visually . Um , so you

Navigating the Art Market

Nicholas Robinson 29:25

know it's . It comes down to what are your objectives when you buy something . Do you want to buy something because you love it ? You want to love it , you want to make good financial sense in terms of putting money into it , rather than maybe wasting money on something that might be overpriced or highly speculative . I mean , these are the kinds of objectives that we , that we go for , rather than any particular , you know , thematic , oratic or whatever kind of objectives that other people may have with their acquisitions or their collecting .

Jeppe Curth 30:02

Yeah , as we normally say that there's enough things out there to buy , so it is possible and we should combine the two factors that we love it and it's a good thing to put money into . Maybe can you elaborate on the value position we have on Salvo that you just mentioned .

Nicholas Robinson 30:21

Well , I mean , you know , I think that the paintings have been very inexpensive for a long time . I mean , the first Salvo paintings that we were buying were , you know , 12 and 15,000 euros , and equivalent paintings are now 60 and 70,000 euros . So of course it's . It's changed a lot in a in a relatively short space of time . But , um , you know , I don't , for me , I don't look at that price , uh , only in relation to Salvo . I look at that price in relation to other other things that one could buy out there in the market and I and I , you know , if it feels reasonable to me price-wise relative to those things , then then I feel inclined to continue buying or advising people that it's a sensible or safe or recommended thing for them to buy too .

Nicholas Robinson 31:19

There's going to be a significant exhibition , the largest survey exhibition of Salvo's work since he died in 2015 . That's going to take place at the Pinacoteca Agnelli , which is a division of the Agnelli Foundation , the industrialist family in Italy that have a long history of collecting and patronage and cultural leadership in Italy . So that's going to take place at the end of this year and run for about six months . So that's going to take place at the end of this year and run for about six months . I don't see people running out of interest in these works , and I just think that they're sufficiently interesting and beautiful that his work is established in a new way , at a newly elevated status , and I think it's going to continue . I don't think it's done so . That would be my feeling about the work and that's what would motivate me to continue to acquire his work .

Jeppe Curth 32:27

Yeah , I totally agree , Nick . For someone looking to explore Salvo's work further , where might they start and how can this knowledge we just shared benefit them in their journey as an art collector ?

Nicholas Robinson 32:42

Well , look and learn . It's like , with so many things , coming to something from some position of knowledge and understanding is useful . You know , the works are very easy to look at and it's very easy to understand the various archetypes that he painted , be it the ruins , the mountain valleys , the , the seascapes , the , the . You know they're all of a clearly defined type . Um , if you wish to to to see many um , then you know you can go to the Archivia Salva website . They've got great biographical information , very detailed of course , um , and you can see lots of examples uh there on their website .

Nicholas Robinson 33:36

Um , barbara Gladstone's website has got some really nice um uh installation images of some of the exhibitions that she has hosted . And then , and then , if you , if you search for Salvo review um art forum , um art forum has a great archive of um exhibition reviews going back 30 or 40 years . So you can , you can , you can read reviews of Salvo's historic exhibitions and you can see how the opinions of his work were uh at the time of writing . You can see how those opinions tally with more contemporary interpretations . And you know there's yeah , I mean there's a world of information online , just like so many things , so it's not difficult to delve into it in some detail .

Jeppe Curth 34:30

Thank you , Nick . Really good insights . Do you think we missed anything ? Anything you want to add ?

Nicholas Robinson 34:37

no , I don't think so . I mean , I seem to spend a lot of time listening to the sound of my own voice here what is ?

Nicholas Robinson 34:43

your personal favorite motif . Well , I think I really like the nocturnal works . I find there's a sort of a quietude in them that's really quite beautiful . It's not probably a typical choice , but I think that somehow , because there's less light in these paintings , definitively I think that what he does with such an economical use of light is so fantastic and so evocative that I just think that they really showcase his really exquisite abilities . Um , but , but there's so many . I mean his sunset paintings . You know I love the way he paints the trees in autumn with these lush oranges , uh , autumnal hues , um , his pink blossoms from the spring . I mean he's a great , great painter and I really encourage , just for sheer pleasure , just to really look at them as much as you can .

Jeppe Curth 35:48

Thank you , nick . Last advice If you need any help buying selling art , if you need any help buying selling art , you're always welcome to contact us at jeppe at nordicartpartnerscom , and thank you for this time .